Comments on: The Lessons of Lebanon http://rightinthemiddle.wordpress.com/2008/05/15/the-lessons-of-lebanon/ Staying centered on issues that matter...Israel and the Middle East Thu, 23 Apr 2009 03:07:20 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: rightinthemiddle http://rightinthemiddle.wordpress.com/2008/05/15/the-lessons-of-lebanon/#comment-24 rightinthemiddle Sat, 21 Jun 2008 03:24:37 +0000 http://rightinthemiddle.wordpress.com/?p=10#comment-24 I won’t take the time to address all of the issues that bring up in your comment. But the basic premise of your argument hinges on the premise that Israel does not have the right to exist as a state. Yes you are correct in stating that there was no division between many modern Middle Eastern States who were formerly part of the Ottoman Empire, but you are mistaken in your understanding of the decentralized nature of the Ottoman rule. Yes, the Young Turks (CUP) tried to solidify and centralize the Ottoman Empire, but by and large there was no centralized rule under the Ottoman Empire, and tribal groups exercised authority in various regions. After WWII the Ottoman Empire was divided and many states were carved out. I assume that if you understand the nature of the division of Lebanon and Syria, you area also familiar with the creation of Jordon. The Arab/ Israel conflict, as I am sure you know, pre-dates Israel’s Statehood and was a problem that the British were determined to wash their hands of. Due to the intensity and the long standing conflict in the region a two state solution was offered. In 1946 the British partitioned "Palestine" and gave it to the Palestinian Arabs for the establishment of an independent Palestinian Arab state called Jordan. On November 29, 1947, the United Nations attempted to take approximately half of the remaining 30% of the "Jewish homeland" away from the Jewish people and give that to the Arabs also. That would have left Israel with only approximately 15% of the area that was originally set aside for their national homeland. What occurred, Israel accepted this small piece of land and declared statehood. What did the Arabs do? They rejected the plan, because they essentially the Arabs have always rejected the idea of a Jewish homeland anywhere in the Middle East. Arabs fled the region so that the 5 Arabic nations could invade to “liberate that piece of land” with the promise that when the State of Israel was defeated, the Arab nationalist who fled could return.. Unfortunately (for the Arabs who left) the surrounding Arab nations were defeated by tiny Israel and suddenly the Arabs who left Israel were called “refugees”. Refugees whom none of the surrounding Arab nations took in (with the exception of Jordan who allowed in some Arabs until they wore out their welcome there when the PLO tried to overthrow the monarchy of King Hussein). As for the fate of the Arabs who stayed and did not flee from Israel, well today they are full fledged Israeli citizens. I think the point is…your underlying premise, that Israel is an illegitimate state is faulty and does not reflect a true understanding of the nature of the Arab-Israeli struggle. I won’t take the time to address all of the issues that bring up in your comment. But the basic premise of your argument hinges on the premise that Israel does not have the right to exist as a state. Yes you are correct in stating that there was no division between many modern Middle Eastern States who were formerly part of the Ottoman Empire, but you are mistaken in your understanding of the decentralized nature of the Ottoman rule. Yes, the Young Turks (CUP) tried to solidify and centralize the Ottoman Empire, but by and large there was no centralized rule under the Ottoman Empire, and tribal groups exercised authority in various regions. After WWII the Ottoman Empire was divided and many states were carved out. I assume that if you understand the nature of the division of Lebanon and Syria, you area also familiar with the creation of Jordon.

The Arab/ Israel conflict, as I am sure you know, pre-dates Israel’s Statehood and was a problem that the British were determined to wash their hands of. Due to the intensity and the long standing conflict in the region a two state solution was offered. In 1946 the British partitioned “Palestine” and gave it to the Palestinian Arabs for the establishment of an independent Palestinian Arab state called Jordan. On November 29, 1947, the United Nations attempted to take approximately half of the remaining 30% of the “Jewish homeland” away from the Jewish people and give that to the Arabs also. That would have left Israel with only approximately 15% of the area that was originally set aside for their national homeland. What occurred, Israel accepted this small piece of land and declared statehood. What did the Arabs do? They rejected the plan, because they essentially the Arabs have always rejected the idea of a Jewish homeland anywhere in the Middle East. Arabs fled the region so that the 5 Arabic nations could invade to “liberate that piece of land” with the promise that when the State of Israel was defeated, the Arab nationalist who fled could return.. Unfortunately (for the Arabs who left) the surrounding Arab nations were defeated by tiny Israel and suddenly the Arabs who left Israel were called “refugees”. Refugees whom none of the surrounding Arab nations took in (with the exception of Jordan who allowed in some Arabs until they wore out their welcome there when the PLO tried to overthrow the monarchy of King Hussein). As for the fate of the Arabs who stayed and did not flee from Israel, well today they are full fledged Israeli citizens.

I think the point is…your underlying premise, that Israel is an illegitimate state is faulty and does not reflect a true understanding of the nature of the Arab-Israeli struggle.

]]> By: Mohammed Emad ElDin http://rightinthemiddle.wordpress.com/2008/05/15/the-lessons-of-lebanon/#comment-16 Mohammed Emad ElDin Thu, 15 May 2008 05:47:51 +0000 http://rightinthemiddle.wordpress.com/?p=10#comment-16 You defined hizbollah as a terror organization ! what are the difference between a resistance and terrorism? did you consider the french resistant against the nazi a terrorist groups or the American resistance against the brirish occupation also as terrorism? What about the international law ! is it recognized resitance against ocupiers or not ? Also you spoke about theIranian and the Syrian influence in Lebanon, what about the American. French,Israeli influence in Lebanon ? Did you remember that Lebanon and Syria under Ottoman Rule was considered Alsham almost one country and now a days Syria is the neibouring country to Lebanon and both Arab nations suffered the same enemy! ISRAEL If it is accepted logically that their are mutual influence between both countries what brings a very far a way country to interfere in Lebanon!? Probably in favor of Israel? and what Israel is looking for? expansisn ? According to the old testament that stated that their land extends from the euphratis (that`s Syria ),also they suffer from the lack of fresh water which available in Lebanon and Syria), and that`s one reason that they still holding the Golan heights till now! They(USRAEL) had planted a fifth column agents inside Lebanon among them Hariri( the saudi backed up party chief), Gomblat the multi agent for who ever pays him and it is known that he is getting money to sabotage Lebanon unity behind the resistance from inside by the American and Saudi funds and smugled all types weapons which he uses aginst Lebanese people not against Lebanon Enemy Seniora the American Puppet Prime ministre and the agent whowas suspected to have connection to late Harir assasination Marwan Hamada the ministre and the French agent to french intelligence and a lot more and if you critique the Resistant role of hizbollah and his weapons, try not to forget that all types of weapons are there with all the militias in Lebanon,also the Lebanes Armt is so fragile because the soldiers loyalty are not for Lebanon and the army but they are loyal first to their sect or rekigious or political party! and tha is very danger for any country, so we could consider Hizbollah with his discipline and Loyalty is the more capable force to defend Lebanon, and thus must be backed up Having weapons from Iran! Israel, Egypt, and Jordan having weapons from The States, So what Please be fair and don`t forget that Israel expansion concept is so obvioous to deny, so the threat is imenent there ! When Israel gives back the occupied land which is a dream ! then ask hizbollah and the democratic elected and chosen Hamas to give up their arms There is a mathematical equation states that every action cretes a reverse action equal to it in force ( which not achieved yet by the Arabs)and in the other direction If the Israelis continue leading the Arabs that way, beleive me it will be an international catastrophe ( and I beleive that any american military intervention in Iran will lead to the same result ), are they looking for that??????? You defined hizbollah as a terror organization !
what are the difference between a resistance and terrorism? did you consider the french resistant against the nazi a terrorist groups or the American resistance against the brirish occupation also as terrorism?
What about the international law ! is it recognized resitance against ocupiers or not ?
Also you spoke about theIranian and the Syrian influence in Lebanon, what about the American. French,Israeli influence in Lebanon ?
Did you remember that Lebanon and Syria under Ottoman Rule was considered Alsham almost one country and now a days Syria is the neibouring country to Lebanon and both Arab nations suffered the same enemy! ISRAEL
If it is accepted logically that their are mutual influence between both countries what brings a very far a way country to interfere in Lebanon!?
Probably in favor of Israel?
and what Israel is looking for? expansisn ?
According to the old testament that stated that their land extends from the euphratis (that`s Syria
),also they suffer from the lack of fresh water which available in Lebanon and Syria), and that`s one reason that they still holding the Golan heights till now!
They(USRAEL) had planted a fifth column agents inside Lebanon among them Hariri( the saudi backed up party chief), Gomblat the multi agent for who ever pays him and it is known that he is getting money to sabotage Lebanon unity behind the resistance from inside by the American and Saudi funds and smugled all types weapons which he uses aginst Lebanese people not against Lebanon Enemy
Seniora the American Puppet Prime ministre and the agent whowas suspected to have connection to late Harir assasination
Marwan Hamada the ministre and the French agent to french intelligence
and a lot more
and if you critique the Resistant role of hizbollah and his weapons, try not to forget that all types of weapons are there with all the militias in Lebanon,also the Lebanes Armt is so fragile because the soldiers loyalty are not for Lebanon and the army but they are loyal first to their sect or rekigious or political party! and tha is very danger for any country, so we could consider Hizbollah with his discipline and Loyalty is the more capable force to defend Lebanon, and thus must be backed up
Having weapons from Iran! Israel, Egypt, and Jordan having weapons from The States, So what
Please be fair and don`t forget that Israel expansion concept is so obvioous to deny, so the threat is imenent there !
When Israel gives back the occupied land which is a dream ! then ask hizbollah and the democratic elected and chosen Hamas to give up their arms
There is a mathematical equation states that every action cretes a reverse action equal to it in force ( which not achieved yet by the Arabs)and in the other direction
If the Israelis continue leading the Arabs that way, beleive me it will be an international catastrophe ( and I beleive that any american military intervention in Iran will lead to the same result ), are they looking for that???????

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